Project Zero I Rising Beyond Borders - The Rise of Singaporean Musicians I shazza & Jean Seizure Artwork

Project Zero : A Journey to discover the Singapore Sound

Project Zero is a thought-provoking podcast series mooted and hosted by Shabir Sulthan, a multi-hyphenate artist who is an award-winning film composer and singer-songwriter.

Across 10 episodes, we explore the unique challenges and boundless potential of the Singaporean music scene with the creme de la creme of the homegrown music fraternity.

Each episode features discussions on cultural influences, collaborative synergies, and the evolution of the music scene, aiming to challenge stereotypes and to foster appreciation for the diversity of musical expressions in Singapore.

The series seeks to uncover how various musicians/artists can potentially come together to define what we can proudly call the Singapore Sound.

All Episodes

Project Zero : A Journey to discover the Singapore Sound

Project Zero I Rising Beyond Borders - The Rise of Singaporean Musicians I shazza & Jean Seizure

July 29, 2024 • shazza & Jean Seizure • Season 1 • Episode 1

In our debut episode, shazza and Jean Seizure, breakthrough Singaporean pop artists with international recognition, discuss topics such as identity, breaking into the global music scene, and the potential of Singaporean musicians on the world stage.

Chapters
(00:00) - Introduction
(01:17) - When did you realise you wanted to make music?
(04:03) - How did your childhood environment influence your music taste?
(09:24) - What comes to mind when I say Singapore Sound?
(13:37) - How do Singaporeans perceive the arts?
(19:22) - How do you explore your identity through music?
(28:03)- Moments where you incorporated your identity into your music
(35:17) - How would you create the Singapore Sound? (Or NDP Song?)
(46:23) - Conclusion
(48:14) - Credits

Follow our host
Shabir Sulthan

Follow our guest Artists:
shazza
Jean Seizure

Project Zero is a thought-provoking podcast series conceived and hosted by Shabir Sulthan, a multi-talented artist renowned as an award-winning film composer and singer-songwriter. Supported by Ministry of Culture, Community, and Youth, this series delves into the unique musical landscape of Singapore, exploring the rich tapestry of sounds that define the nation's cultural identity.

Follow our host Shabir Sulthan
Follow Shabir Music Asia for more updates on Project Zero

1:01:08

PROJECT ZEROshazza and Jean, welcome.Hello.Welcome to the show.Thank you for coming.Thank you for having us.So, let's start with Jean.Yes.What?[Laughter]I just want to know,tell us a little bit about...You know, we have thatmoment where we feel likemaybe this is something that I could do.From enjoying it to a point where,"Hmm, I want to do something like that."You know?What was that moment for you?Hmm, I think that moment for me was whenI wrote my first song.Yeah, because before that it was alwayslike I'm covering somebody else's song.So then, when I finally wrote somethingthat I could call my own, I was like,"Hey, what if I likewrote more, like, you know?"And then like, maybe from there on, itcould lead to something else.How old were you at that point?I think I was 17.Right, okay.What was that about, do you remember?Yes.[Laughter] I was caught in a very sticky situation.Mm-hmm.And I liked this person, and I didn'tknow what to do with my feelings.And I couldn't really tell anyone, sothen I wrote the song, and yeah.That kind of like, became a thing for me.Like, I was constantlywriting about, like, my feelingsfor people that I can'ttell anyone else about.And it became like a catharsis for you.Yes, it was a catharsis for me.And I'm sure you didn'trealize it at that point, right?At that point.It just feels good, that kind of thing.Yeah, it just felt like, "Oh, I feel hurtby myself," you know?Yeah.And shazza, your first song was like,what, I think 11 or 12or something like that.I wrote it at 11.And you're like, you wrote a love song?It was a breakup song.It was a breakup song, but you were notgoing to a breakup with somebody right?No, that's the thing,like, it wasn't about...What?No, no, no, you know what,weirdly I can relate to that.Because, yeah, when I read about that,and when I saw that, you knowyou wrote a breakup song,a heartbreak song at like 11I was like, "Damn, that's uncanny."Because I was 12,and I wrote a breakup song tooand I wasn't going through a breakup.Right?!So when I read the story,I was like, "This is crazy.It's very similar."It is! Wow!I'm just trying to mimic, actually.It was that, basically, because a lot ofsongs, are love songs and breakup songs.I think it was like a matter of, that'swhat I listened to growing up.I kind of tried to mimic that when I wastrying to start writing.Yeah.And, like, it's not like we understandwhat those feelings mean.It's kind of just singing and...Yeah, it would be weird.Yeah.I had no concept of the idea of, like,genuine heartbreak and stuff.I was kind of just likewailing, like, "Oh, please."It was terrible.It was such a bad song, but it was so funto be able to create something like that.Right.And mimic what I loved, I so lovedlistening to and then singing along to.So, yeah.And when you guys were, like, growing up,and I'm sure there wasmusic playing at home,because we're Singaporeans, right?Yeah.So we wouldn't just have one particulargenre or languageplaying at home, most probably.Or, you know, it could be one particulargenre or language athome, but we go to school andthen we get exposed to different things.Yeah.So, us being bilingual, multilingual alsoleads to us listening tomany genres, naturally, right?Yeah.Even if we don't, like, our parents arelistening or someone fromthe family is listening andwe're still listening, you know?Because that's something

you can't stop: 1:04:34

Listening.It's true.Eyes, you can shut.Ears, there's little you can do here.Yeah.So, when that happens, how did thatinfluence you in the beginning?You know, it's a bit different becauseour musical diet is sodiverse, you know, comparedto maybe someone from ato maybe someone from adifferent country whereyou listen to one particularkind of music and stuff.Yeah, or language, you know?True.So how does that, like, how did thatinfluence you in the beginning?I think for me, when I was in primaryschool, my music influencewas mostly Chinese, Taiwanesemusic.Like, my mom was teaching a lot ofstudents how to sing and all that.So my favorite singer wasZhang Hui Mei, who is A-Mei.And then when I went to school, though,everybody, like, they werelistening to Britney Spears,Christina Aguilera, and I was just like,"Who are these people?"And then my brothers werelistening to Linkin Park.So it was very different.But in that sense, like, I think I sawsort of, like, howdifferent my family was comparedto, like, the people thatI hung out with in school.So in some ways, like, that also made mecurious about, like, Western pop.And then from there, I'm like, "Oh, okay,actually, I quitelike, I don't think I likeBritney Spears.I think I was into,actually, I was into Linkin Park."Yes.Yeah.I quite like them.That's fair.Yeah.Were they the ones whodid the transformer music?Were they?I think so.Transformer, you mean?From the first Transformers movie.What's that?What I've Done. What I've Done.Linkin Park is really sick.I grew up on Linkin Park as well.Sick, for 12-year-old child.Yeah.Very healthy diet, you know, yeah.Thank you.And then go home and sing Chinese songs.Yes, yes.But that's the, that's whatI'm very fascinated about.And that's one of those things why Iwanted to initiate theproject as well, tohave these conversations.Oddly enough, we don't get a lot ofplatforms to talk aboutthis particular aspect of theSingaporean musician, you know.Yeah.And we're talking about genre, and we'retalking about, you know,we always build a bridgewith someone who is similar to us, and wehave conversations about that.And let's say when we're in an interview,then we talk about ourmusic and our influences.But what about the cross-pollination interms of language and genre?So that's something which I'm quitecurious, you know, to talk about.I never actually thought about it thatway, because when peopletalk about the Singaporeansound, as with many thingsSingaporean, it's very Rojak.Yeah.Like, that's what, that's all I would beable to say about it.How do you describe it?How do you describe it, right?Because I think we are so influenced bydifferent, different genres of music.For me, for myself, at home, growing up,it was interestingbecause all members of myfamily listened to very different things.So my dad was very intoBollywood and Kollywood music.So I had a healthy diet of that.And then I also had my mom, who was veryinto Norah Jones, and shehad Frank Sinatra playing,like, you know, and we'dalso listen to the radio a lot.My brother was into Black Eyed Peas.Oh, nice.So that was something I listened to.So it was very, very diverse.And I think in that sense, it kind of,now that I look back,I can see like bitsof it that have found their way into mymusic subconsciously.Yeah.Yeah.I mean, when we talk about the Singaporesound, when we startedthis project, it's not likewe know what it is.We actually have no clue.We're sitting here having no idea.Phew!Because I was like, oh my gosh,I didn't know what to do.And you know, I had preliminaryconversations with like Dick Lee andProfessor Jeremy Monteiroand people, you know.Jean, even we spoke about itbriefly, you know what I'm saying?So I'm not coming from aplace of, okay, I know what it is.Come, let's talk about it.I have no idea.Let's talk about it.Great.Let's find out! Yeah.Let's find out together.That's the idea.And I realized that in the course of myresearch that there isnot, even if there is, there'snot going to be a Singapore sound.There are going to be Singapore sounds.Yeah.Correct.Because Bangsawan is...when it's done in Singaporein a particular manner,it's gonna be a Singapore sound.The Getai is going to be a Singaporesound when it's sung inSingapore in a particularcontext and same goes toIndian Semi-Classical, et cetera.So there are going to be multiple sounds.And then there are going to be pointswhere we meld, where we meet, correct?And how we meet,what's the approach to that meet?Is it done for CMIO purpose or is it(Chinese-Malay-Indian-Others)done, you know, from aplace where you are genuinelycurious about each other's, you know,musical heritage and youwant to learn something or,you know, wanna impart something.So these things will change thecomplexion of what we callthe Singapore sound (s).You know what I'm saying?Yeah.So I think that's the thing that we wantto like mainly talkabout and we want to getyour thought as well.So there is this thing that, you know,I'm in the middlebecause I'm in between twogenerations.I'm sandwiched.Okay.So I speak to, you know, the generationwho kind of was veryinvolved in the whole movement,like from Asia Bagus, they werevery conscious about that thing.Yeah.Like what it means tobe Singaporean, you know.And then I'm, I'vegot a daughter who's 16.So I also understand that there's anothergeneration where it depends.It depends on what they're watching, onwhat they're reading, howthey identify themselvesand stuff.And then I thought, okay, it'll be coolto initiateconversations where we get, you know,everyone's point of view and stuff.So when it comes to, when I say Singaporesound, okay, when Isay something like that,it's so broad and intangible, right?What comes to mind?Don't say NDP.(National Day Parade)No, no, no.From like my perspectiveI think there is the, IndieFolk Chinese, like...sound, which they call, I don't knowI think they're calledTan Shanren (actually XinYao)At one point they had like a whole, likepeople playing at thecafe and they were writingtheir own, like a version of Singaporemusic and the lyrics arefilled with like, you know,talking about living inthe HDB and stuff like that.(Housing Development Board)So like, that's one of thethings that come to mind.Mostly on the Chinese side.Yeah.Singapore sound.And then there's likeSam Willows(Laughter)Local pop.Yes, local pop, like Lin Ying.There's also like theBaybeats kind of sound.Metal...Yeah, the metal.Yeah.Which is quite like a vibrant communityalso in Singapore, right?shazza, what about you?Like, what comes to mind when I say that?Like she's, like she's saying, it's, it'svery diverse in, in general.And Singapore sound to me sounds like ahuge amalgamation of different things.I can also understand how people mightlook at it and thinkthat it's imitative becauseI think we are at a position where we arelooking out at theworld and taking in otherinspiration and,trying to make it our own.And I think Singaporeans have a bad habitof, umm... okay not a bad habitSorry guys! - She said bad habit!Not bad habit.I mean more like, there's that stigma.That if it comes fromSingapore, it can't be good.It is a bad habit.It's understandable because I can admitthat I've had the same,you know, like thoughtsgrowing up, like because it's somethingwe're so exposed to isthat international musicis the standard.And I'm not saying it's not because it'sdoing well for a reason.But I think because of how much that'sperpetuated, people tend tooverlook the fact that we canbe as good as them.And that it's not something we constantlyhave to aspire towards, you know?Yeah.Like for example, when I put out stuffand people like it, youknow, some of the commentsI get are like, "when I heard this on theradio, I thought it was, I thought it wasan international artist."I heard imitation voice.I'm like, "oh, I thought it was aninternational artist."Then I'm like, it sounds like abackhanded compliment.Actually, yeah, you're right.Yeah, because it's like, "oh, I'm gladthey like it, but why doesit have to be from somewhereelse just to be good?"Yes, for it to be good, right?Yeah, yeah, yeah.Actually, I had the same experiencesomehow because when Iwrote my first song, I sentit to my friend and then she let myclassmate hear it and hewas like, "oh, that's Jean,I thought it was somelike, Ang Moh artist."It's always like that, you know?And I'm like...The thing is when you hear it in themoment, because it's sostigma, like so, how to sayso, so embedded in us, you feel like it'sa good thing, like,"oh, I thought, Ang Moh!"You think about it, you'relike, "wait a minute..."It's backhanded. Yeah yeah...For sure.I mean, I get that too when I went intoIndia to do the films andthe score and stuff, whichis quite unprecedented for a Singaporeanartist to do like eight films in India.And a lot of comments were like, "oh,finally, you know, aSingaporean can do something in India.You know that kind of...Damn!Oh my gosh.That's harsh, okay.That's harsh.Hey, we are not useless okay.Because this industry has existed for likehundreds of years and weexisted for like, what, afew years or so, right?So, I mean, okay.Think about it, right?You mentioned that there's a lot ofthings coming into themix and that's a blessing,but that can also turn into a banebecause when there's toomuch, then you don't knowwhich direction to take.That's one thing.And sometimes we...Don't we suffer from a certain sense ofidentity crisis as Singaporeans?Yeah.And that kind of spillsover to the music as well.Yeah.And the art is a means for us to processand kind of find ourselves, correct?But not everybody is given thatopportunity, correct?Because art makes aperson more sensitive.It makes them more understanding.It makes them more empathetic.And those people who are commenting, whoare saying that, you know"Oh, I thought it'san international artist."They may not have the opportunity to kindof explore in that manner, you know?It's true.And it's also the priorities, right?Like I spoke to a friend of mine who'sgot a son and, youknow, he said that, "I justwant my son to take over the business.I don't want him to do music."You know, he can do it forfun, but not as a career.Yeah.So, I mean, at the end of the day, asSingaporean artists, thefirst people we are performingto are Singaporeans.Yes.And if, let's say, it's not entirelytheir fault because, youknow, probably their parentsare telling them, you know, "Don'tparticipate in the musicindustry and the business and stuff."So, they've got thismindset to always look outward.So, when you start participating in thelocal music scene and startappreciating local artists,there's a tendency that youmay want to also follow that.Be a part of it, yeah...Because artists and athletes are the oneswho can truly capturethe imagination of youngpeople and inspire them, as opposed todoctor, engineer, scientist.Though they are important.Very important. Very important.But that's the thing that our parentswill tell us to be, right?Yes.Rarely, our parents are going to walk inand say, "I want you to be an artist."Halo on the head. Not gonna happen.How are your parents like?Oh they're...My parents are, I'm very blessed with anincredibly strong support system at home.I think the whole process of me goinginto this properly wasvery much because of myparents in the sense that they've alwaysknown that this issomething that I like to doThey were my first audience.When I first wrote my firstsong, I went to sing it to them.They're like, "Okay,yeah, this is interesting."Then I kept doing it.Did you just imitate your dad?Yes.Yeah I heard it.You heard it?Yeah.Thank you so much, yes.Oh, my gosh.But no, I think itstarted when I was six or something.Then we were at my uncle's wedding andthen everybody leftalready, but they were closingup and then I was like, "Iwant to go on a stage and sing."My dad was like, "What?"Okay, then I went andI just sing to nobody.I think they were like, "Okay, we're introuble with this one."Yeah, then I think when I started writingsongs, they've alwaysbeen very supportive.They always listen and stuff.As I was going from Polytechnic to UniversityI realized that this issomething I really want to dobut I don't know how to get it going properlyThen my dad and my mom were like, "If youwant to do it, youhave to give it a propershot."They pushed me to do the whole musicvideo thing and everything.I was thinking, "The people are going tolook at this and belike, "Who does she think she is?""Why got music video all?"I was very self-conscious about that, butwithout that support,I wouldn't have done it.That's not something everybody has.I know for a fact it's beeninstrumental to my project.I think that it's worked so well becauseof them and because Ihave that kind of confidencein myself thanks to thepeople that I have at home.It starts at home, really.I think it's a trend which can change.This stigma that we're talking about.Now there are more Singaporeans who appreciatelocal music.I don't like to use the term becausemusic is music, artistsis artists, it doesn't matterBut because there is that segregation for usWe have to...We can't...Yeah, I can't go on Spotifyand say, "I have no genre."I have to put myself some genre.I'm a citizen of the world.What playlist are you going to put me on?I'm fluid. I'm like water.I can't say that.That's the point, I think, sometimes.For an example, I understand that beingborn in Singapore, I'mSingaporean, I'm also SoutheastAsian, I'm also South Asian, I'm alsoAsian, I'm Tamil, I'mMuslim, I read Zen philosophy.I'm a bit all over the place.But I understand all this not to trapmyself but rather to liberate myself.So identity, why we draw these lines orwhy we put ourselves incertain compartments israther to understand ourselves but not tosegregate ourselvesfrom the bigger picture.And that's the reason why asSingaporeans, I do think that it'simportant to spend sometime understanding and empathizing withour history, where we camefrom, how it all started,why we are here and whyit is the way it is today.And this whole mentality of Singaporeanskind of, not prioritizing music,for example. Or seeing that...there are things which are more important.There is, right?Because you know, smallcountry in Southeast Asia.We're not that old.Yeah, also a constant existential crisisbecause you don't knowwhether you'll make it.This whole "kiasu" thing, it started(Kiasu - Fear of losing out)like pre-independence itself.Yeah, it's always been.I think it's so embedded in us.So we are alwaysconstantly struggling with that.And as human beings, if we can haveexistential and spiritualcrisis as a nation, we can have it too.But it's about how we mediate andnegotiate thesedifferences and go forward.And I do believe that art has a veryimportant place and musichas a very important placefor us as a community,country and all that.And artists need to be protected andgiven that space to createwhat they want to create.I do believe in that.And when we come back, circle back to thewhole thing of what isthe identity, if you'rea Singaporean pop musician, how like it'ssuch a fluid topic,it's very difficult toanswer because the popmusic industry wants a hit.It wants a hit.It wants something that's going to makeyou move upwards,vertically in the Spotify algorithm.But then you've got allthese questions to answer too.How do we negotiate those differences?How do you explore your identity in thepop music scene coming from Singapore?Jean, boom!Throw it at you!It's a question Iwant an answer too also.Okay, maybe let's talk about it.Rather than seeing it as a question andanswer, maybe let's just have aconversation about it.Well, hmm...Because you see, okay, let'sthink about it this way, okay?It's interesting because you're probablyone of the very fewpop artists in your spacewho grew up with the musical diet likeA-Mei, you mentionedA-Mei, Taiwanese artist, andthen go to school and there's likesomething else going on.And the same goes to me, right?I grew up listening to A. R. Rahman, theGrammy award winning composer at home.And then my brother plays Guns N' Rosesone day, I don't know where that came from.And then he plays Alleycats from Malaysia.He's listening to all this and I'm also listening.Then go to school, there's Outkast,there's Tupac Shakur,there's Biggie Smalls, there's Nas.It's like, whoa, that kind of thing.And then you get introduced to a wholenew world.Rage Against The Machine,Black Eyed Peas as well.All these things are happening.But I'm the only person...I got Kitaro as well in the mix, you know.So weird, right?Love that!But probably I'm the only person, or I'mone of the very fewpeople who've got this exactmix, that's my DNA, correct?And if I was born in some other place,it's not gonna be the same.Yeah, it's true.I don't think it's gonna bethe same, it will be different.And what does that meanto me as an artist now?It transpires when I dosoundtrack especially.In pop, it's a bit challenging tobring out, you know, alot of things, right?Yes, of course.But when I do soundtrack, it really helpsme a lot because, youknow, that's what soundtrackis about, you know, it's about, you know,bringing the world andcreating this universe,right?So I'm just curious, like, when youwrite, now let's kindof think through that.Okay.What are those parts of your earlyinfluences that's actuallysubconsciously influencing?And remember one thing, you areintellectualizing a process whichhappened very organically.Yeah, that's like...Yeah, yeah, yeah.Well, yeah.It's not gonna be all thatstraightforward, but let'stry, let's make an attempt.I think it's interesting because, like, Ithink somebody hasever given me this commentabout one of my songs, it being, eventhough it's an Englishsong, it kind of has a littlebit of, like, a Chinese chord structure.I didn't realize that.So it's just, like, oh, interesting, youknow, like, I think...And when you say Chinese chord structure,it's like what you hear in Mandopop?Mandopop, yeah, like the...It's like a ballad.Yeah, the ballad type kind of vibe to it.And it's like, if I were to translate thelyrics from English toChinese, it would stillmake sense, like themelody and all that stuff.So that was something that I thought wasinteresting, like, thatmaybe a part of my childhood wasembedded into this songwithout me realizing it.Have you ever thought about it that way?No.I just wrote it, like,without thinking, right?Yeah, but I think that's an influencethat I think occurredin the song that I didn'trealize only until aftermy friend told me about it.And if I move Jean toTaiwan, it's going to be different.If I move Jean to, like, Brooklyn, it'sgoing to be different.Yeah, it's true.This sound that Jean Seizure is producingis exactly happeningthe way it's happening,because Jean was in Singapore.Yeah.I love that.That's cool.That makes sense.Wow, I never thought of it that way!Oh my gosh.Yeah, and shazza, I've got something elseto point out for yours as well.Would you sing "Pity Party" like thechorus and the pre-chorus?Now?Yeah, now.If that's okay.I forgot how it goes.Wait, wait, wait.I know the popper at the end.And I know it's ungrateful to be so veryhateful at this age.Give me a break.I'm allowed to feel.I'm allowed to steal.A couple of moments for myself to wish Icould be, like, anywhere else.Eh, sorry.Right person wrong time, is it?Yeah, right person wrong song.I'm asking you the wrong song.Are you talking about right person wrong time?Yeah, could you sing that one?The verse or the chorus?Yeah, the verse, the verse.I comb my hair...I brush my teeth... I close myeyes, I'm counting sheep,but sleep ain't coming to me.Easy, these days.There you go.That's the Bollywood in me.Yeah.So when I heard the song,that's like what we call a "Sangathi"in Carnatic music, which islittle melismatic notes that you doin a particular way.There is a possibility to have a collectiveconsciousness for Singaporeartists to understand that these things,it can only happenbecause we were born in thispart of the world.And understanding allthese cultures, correct?Yeah.And I think that's interesting.And maybe sometimes it'snot something we have to do.It's just somethingwe have to be aware of.Right.Yeah.It's like when you sit to meditate, youcan't do meditation.You just have to be aware of your breathing.You have to let it happen to you.be in that moment, right?So how we negotiate with the pop industryand our identity asbeing born in Singaporewith all these influences, it's just thatmaybe it's about being constantly aware,like how you're aware of your breath.Yes.This is me.This is where I came from.Maybe I may not represent it at thispoint, but I still know that that's me.Yeah.That's not going to change wherever I am.And that's the reason why Iwore Batik today, by the way.The reason why I wear Batik is becausemy grandmother is a mix of Malay,Pakistani and Indian.Oh, wow.She's got these mixesand she always wore Batik.So when I got an opportunity to do a bigsoundtrack for a very big actor calledAjith Kumar in India,I did a soundtrack for him.So deliberately, I was thinking, "Whatshall I wear today for this shoot?"I was like, "Batik."How do I say this?Because in an industry like the Tamilfilm industry, it's fleeting.And it's a lot about...It's like a horse race.It's a lot about who can run faster andcan reach the point first.I don't care what you bring, I don't carewho you are, I don't care where you camefrom, I don't care what breed you are,but can you deliver the hit?That's it. You know what I'm saying?I found it difficult to be in theindustry and not ground myself.That was the time I wastrying to also run the race.And then I realized that, "No, no, no.It's bankrupting mespiritually and creatively."So I need to anchor down.So these are littlethings that I do for myself.When I go for that shoot, it's a songdone for the Tamil film industry by anartist who's from Singapore.And I want to remember where I come from,so I wore the Batik.I love that. That's so cool.So this is a consciousdecision that I made, you see.But there are alsosubconscious decisions that I make.For example, my first filmscore had the Erhu in it.(Erhu - Two-Stringed Chinese Bowed Instrument)You know what I'm saying?I'm not like, "Okay, I'm going to use theErhu because I'm from Singapore."I'm going to put the Singapore in it.In fact, there's no place for that in avery highly cut-throatcommercial industry.There's no place forthese things, you see.And the global popindustry can be like this too.I think people use certain sounds to makeit exotic so that it can sell.And they may not even befrom that culture, you see?Yeah.That happens too as well.Appropriation.Appropriation. Wow her face.Not happy.Yeah, whoa.I'm kidding.Yeah, yeah, yeah.It's true.So there are conscious decisions that wemake to incorporate whowe are into our artistry.Not just music, but artistry.It could be the way we look, the way wetalk, the words we use, youknow, all the lyrics we write.But in the subconscious way, can youremember instances like that in yourcreative journey, artistic journey,where you felt like...When I say identity, we're talking aboutculture, but it can be somuch more than that, correct?You know what I'm saying?I could read a text, and it's not fromthe culture that I'm from,but I can still relate to it.And it becomes a part of my identityafter a point, right?Yeah.I'm talking about that.So coming from Singapore, are theremoments in your life where eitherconsciously or subconsciously,you felt, "Man, yeah, that happened, butI never thought about it.It just happened like that."I mean, for me, consciously, for mepersonally, I literallywear my religion on my head.So that is something that comes acrossvery clearly, I think, topeople who view me as an artist.And regionally speaking,I think it's more common.You see more hijabi ladies.(Hijabi - Muslim woman who dons the head covering scarf)It's just that I think in Singapore, it'snot prevalent for a hijabi girl to bemaking English music.You see a lot of hijabi artists, butusually they're from Malaysia orIndonesia or Singapore,but they're making Bahasa, Indonesiamusic or Malay music.So that's something that I have noticedthat when people meetme for the first time,and they don't know that I make music,and I tell them, they'relike, "Oh, you are Malay singer?"No, I'm not. I'm not evenMalay. I'm Indian Muslim.But it's understandable,because that's the common thing.So for me, it's a very instrumental partof my... It's a very conscious thing, isthat this is who I am.And I am wearing it, because this is whoI am. My religion is ahuge part of who I am.And I think now that, recently, with thefollowing that I'vegotten, it's been growing a bit.It's been growing a lot.Both of you. You're doing great.Yeap.Yeah, both of you. I really appreciatethe both of you, by the way.I'm going to take itout of time right now.No, it's never thewrong time to say that.I'm very happy to be in the same studiowith shazza and Jean.And same to you..And two of my veryfavorite current artists.I don't like to use the word current, butyes, I'll use the word current.That means the world.Thank you. That's crazy.Yes, please.But I was just saying that I realizedthat as the following hasbeen growing beyond the region,because the video that blew up happenedto be from American artists, right?I see more unfamiliarity with this.People are moreuncomfortable with it here and there.People have a bit morevocal, like, "Oh, you're Muslim."And a lot of people have beenasking me, "Are you Muslim?"I'm like, "What do you think?"I get it, because maybe I don't wear itthe typical way here and there.But yeah, I think there's been a bit morediscussion about how somepeople don't think it's rightthat I'm making music as a hijabi or theybelieve that music is Haram.(Haram - Forbidden)There are these perceptions and stuff.But at the same time, it iswho I am. And music is who I am.So I think that is a conscious thing forme. It's blending the two.It's not something Iwant to walk away from.I feel like my intentions are in theright place and I ground myself in myspirituality as well.So yeah, that is aconscious thing for me.So faith is like a crucial part of yourartistic identity as well.I would say because it's abig part of my image too.When people see me, I am a Muslim womanand that is what comesfirst because of what I wear.And it's not something that I shy awayfrom, you know,because yeah, it is who I am.Jean, how is it for you?Wow. Well, you know, when we're talkingabout faith, it's a bit of an interestingtopic for me because Imean, I'm Queer and Christian.So then that is like, it doesn't match,especially inSingapore sometimes. It's hard.So I think that is a big part of my, likebig influence in my musicis the fact that I'm Queer.And I think I also kind of tried to marrythese two thingstogether in one of my songs.Night. I don't know if people noticethis, but like the bridge part is like,it feels almost like a worship sort ofthing because like it wasabout liking somebody in church.And I kind of like wanted likespecifically just that kind of feeling ofbeing in church, butthen also being Queer.So then that's like one of the thingsthat I think has brought me along also interms of my other songs.It's always going to be in a perspectiveof a Queer person, which you don't getvery often in Asia, I feel. So yeah.So that's the thing, right? I mean, whenwe are authentic and we lean back intoour identity and youknow, our influences,we never know who we are positivelyimpacting. And we need that. We need thatin a very cacophonic, distracted,sometimes negative environment.We need to be us. Because someone elsewho is like 12 years old, 13 years old,they are watching and they're feelinginspired and they're feelingcompanionship withoutyou actually being there.That's what music can do, right? It canoffer companionship, you know? And that'swhat our artistry is doing sometimes.So really, I mean, I really appreciatethe both of you. I just want to say thatat this point. Thank you.Two Singaporean artists really likewearing your identity on your sleeves. Andsometimes maybe you're not intending tocreate a change, but you just being youis changing lives outthere. Seriously, you know.If, let's say, I was to embark on aproject where I want to give a take ofthe Singapore sound, for an example, if Iwant to do that experiment, take down,walk down that slippery road.I would start thinking about, becauseit's my interpretation. And it's going tovary, you know what I'm saying.Yeah. And the song that I wrote forNational Day, Singai Naadu, is one(Singai Naadu - Land of The Lion)example. I love that song.Love that song. Thank you. Thank you. Sothat song is that example where I'mtrying to marry these influences and I'mtrying to write a love story to mycountry, the place that I was born inthat made me the person I am.Rather than a National Day song with ahoorah and stuff. I couldn't do that,actually. It was a limitation to be veryhonest. But it came out that way.Yeah. I think after a point, they startedtaking the song and reinterpreting it.And now it's got many versions where youalso got that version too, where you canreally rouse everyone andbring everyone together.But when I was writing the song, it was avery personal experience. And there are afew things that were happening. Numberone, certainly I'm not, you know,oblivious to "Home" because that is likethe thing we all know thatis the best National Day song.I like "What Do You See" a lot by Electrico.I love that one. That's my favorite. Butof course, we all have to agree that "Home"is for everyone. It's foreveryone. Home is for everyone.Okay.Genius. Genius. Oh My Gosh.So, when I... I'm conscious of that whenI'm writing Singai Naadu. But at thesame time, it has to be mine, of course.So I'm writing like a love song for mycountry. And there's a lot of, you know,Tamil music, Indian influences in thesong. I choose it in a particular Raag,which is a melodic modein Indian classical system.But then I also, very seamlessly, I'mable to integrate the Rebana, Anak Rebana,Ibu Rebana, you know, elements from, youknow, Malay cultural music. And I reallylove the sound of the Erhu because, youknow, it reminds me of the human voice.And I always find ways to, you know, likeuse it. I get goosebumpswhen I think about the Erhu.Wow.- So, yeah. - Wow.- That can happen. - So, I'm weaving thatin too. And then I'm creating somethingwhich is the Singapore sound for me.Correct? That's mine. You know what I'msaying? It's being filtered through me. Andwe are all artists because also of ourtastes and ourinterpretations of things, right?I ask you to read this book and, youknow, write some lyrics on it. All threeof us are going to come up with threedifferent results. Very different ones.We're going to focus on different thingstoo. Yeah? So, if let's say you were todo something like this, if Igave you an exercise, okay?I didn't write Singai Naadu for NDPthough. Let me make that disclaimer here.I wrote it because I just felt that after"Munnaeru Vaalibaa" there's no Tamil song.It was the need of the hour. As an artistfrom Singapore, I felt responsible for,you know, my society, community andcountry too. So, I took on theresponsibility. I also want to showeveryone that artists are not essential,right? We can be very essential. So, Itook the time to do it on my own. It wasa grown-up effort actually. It wasn't atop-down thing. It wasn't commissioned.So, that's the reason why I also had thefreedom to do what I want to do in thatsense. So, if let's say you were to dosomething like that. It could be analbum, it could be a song, it could be asoundtrack, maybe no vocals, you know? Ifyou were to do something like that Jean,like, are you able to think of...But here's the thing, because I think wealready have traces of it, because you'realready talking about the Taiwaneseheritage and that is also Singaporean.That is also Singaporean, becausethat's what makes us, you know? We are acountry of descendants of immigrants andthat story isimportant. How would you do it?Boom Shaka Laka.Oh my gosh!Okay, let's go to shazza firstwhile Jean thinks it over.I would make it English, because that isthe language we all speak. And I think inrecent times, I've had discussions withmy family and my parents particularlyabout the concept of, you know, if it's anational day song, why is it in English?It's because that's whatwe speak out, you know?That has to be... It makes it fair,because once you introduce otherlanguages, you have to introduce themall, which is not wrong, you know? But Ithink I would make it English.me as a songwriter, I would want toincorporate things that everybody can,you know, when you listen to it, itreminds you of home. You know, you weretalking about poetry and how, you know,like a Singaporean poetry, I didliterature, so I remember whenever wewere given a poem that was written by aSingaporean, it's so visceral.The way they write, it's things that youwon't even think about. Like, you know,they were writing about HDB experienceand you're like, "Whoa!" Like, you canconnect with that but you won't be athome thinking like, "Wow, the way the sunfilters through my grills." You know, in this"Towah Payoh" estate. You knowwhat I mean? It's the way..."Towah Payoh?"No, how does anyone say "Towah Payoh"?Then how to say?How you say?It's "Toa Payoh".Did I say it wrong?You didn't say it wrong,you're like, "Towah Payoh"."Toa Payoh"Yeah, "Two Payoh".Dua Lipa...(Laughter)But yeah, you know, things about beingSingaporean, I think for me it would bevery lyrical. Like, I would want toincorporate a lot ofthat in the lyricism. Yeah.I think that's a great device to evenstart pondering this question of what theSingapore song could be, which is takenfrom Singapore poetry.Yes.Yeah, I would neverthink about it that way.But sometimes, you know, you need to usethe back door or the window to come in.It's the same thing, honestly.I mean, not the same thing, butSingaporean literature is what would be aderivative of the Singaporean sound,because when you think about lyricism,it's in the same, you know, book.And poetry is so egalitarian that it doesnot have the limitations that we have ofSpotify playlisting andall that kind of stuff.So they can do whatever they want.Time to switch over, at some point.Back to poetry. I did poetry for a while.It's time to switch back to poetry.I am doing it.You are?Yeah, because I had a little bit of ablock last year after another of the, youknow, 999th crisis and stuff.So I was like, I need todo something about this.You're good?I'm okay, I'm okay.Chill.You just need to stopreading all this kind of stuff.Yeah, because it's alldepressing, like, stuff.They tend to be going through stuff too.Yeah, actually.That's why.Sometimes it's like, yeah, I'm like, oh,maybe that's like, oh, no wonder.Like, oh my God, it's me.Oh, that life sucks, you know.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So like, when you're going through awriter's block after, you know, acertain, you know, moment, and you wantto change form, it could be anything, youknow, it could even be a sport.Like, Jean, you've got that, right?You're doing like acting, and you'redoing like martialarts and stunts and stuff.Yeah, fighting my demons.I'm sure, like...You go girl!I'm sure there's been a day where youcouldn't write something, and then you goand do something and come back andsuddenly you feel more free.Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.Like, moving my body, like, I mean,stunts is also expressing, right?So it's like, when you're doing a sport,you're using your body movements toexpress yourself, like,express what you want.Yeah. Yeah.So when I, like, had this problem where Icouldn't sit and write anymore for awhile, I was like, man, let's try poetry.Because I used to write poems, you see.and I'm like, slowly I found the muscleto start writing songs again.Because poetry is such a thing, like, youdon't need to thinkabout who you're writing for.Yeah.Because there's probablyno one listening to it.No, not that.Nobody cares about poetry.That's the perputal...No. No, it's just that the scene where, youknow, where poetry slams happen, they'revery forgiving, and they're veryaccepting, and they accept all kinds ofpoems, and there's no playlisting tomeddle with and stuff like that.So you're kind of freefrom all these limitations.Yeah, it's very organic, you know?It's true.So I do think that I'mgoing to mark this down.If I do, when I embark on that project,I'm going to take this tip that shazza,you kind of inspired me.Yippee.Yes.Poetry as a way...Singaporepoetry as a means to get-Understand the Singaporean style.Yeah.Really go deeper into our identity.That's one way to do it.It's very cool.Yeah.Pretty solid, huh?It is.Sometimes when I'm really uninspired,then I'm on Instagram, then sometimes myexplore page is like poetry.Same. I'm like, "Whoa, then I feel inspired."Right!It's literature, you know?It is, yeah, yeah, yeah.It's just, yeah, it's beautiful.Jean, what would you do?I feel like, I think like sounds of likea Singaporean environmentwould be in the track somehow.I don't know how-Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.Yeah, like a-Ah! (Morning Bird Sound)Oh man, that one.Can't do anything about that one.I mean, yeah, but or like just beinglike in a Singaporean environment, like asoundscape inside my ears kind of thing,where like even if you're a Singaporeanoverseas, you'relistening to it, you're like-You're like, "Oh shit, I'min MRT," and it's crowded.(MRT - Mass Rapid Transit)That kind of thing.And then I also agree that I think in thelyrics also, because lyricsreally speak to me, right?So I think in terms of like the thingsthat they say would be kind ofSingaporean, but I don't think it wouldbe like, you know, "Lah, Lor" stuff.It's just more of like, I guess like anexpression of an emotional mind state.Yeah, these kind of stuff.And then maybe some very subtle likeethnic instruments, you know, like theAngklung, that kind of thing.(Anklung - Indonesian Instrument made from Bamboo Tubes)So your approach would be more of likecreating a sense of space.Yeah, yeah, like sense of space.And bringing the listener into that space.Yeah.I mean, I'm not like, I don't know how touse like all theseAbleton, Logic Pro stuff.Yeah, we do.Great.We can help you.Okay.Connections!Yes!Yeah, but like stuff like that.So yeah, I think that's interesting.One person would start from the lyrics,you know, seek out poetry.Yeah.And another personwould start from the sound.Yeah, I love that though.I think I would really enjoy listening tosomething like that because it's like,it's somethinglike if you're ever away.Yeah.You know how some people are like, "Wow,I love it when I take the plane, I comehome right, then in Singapore Airlines."Then they'll be like, "To allSingaporeans, welcome home."Someone put that in their song.Yeah, I think so.Who?I don't know, but I feellike somebody has done it.But you know what I mean, it's things like thatThe kind of feeling.That you overlook in your day to day.Exactly.When you are looking back, you're like,"Damn, I love Singapore."Yeah.And it could just be like the sound oflike, you know,sitting under your HDB block.Yeah.Yeah, and for me, it's like when I'mtraveling, I come back to Singapore andthen you know thesecurity at the airport.Excuse me sir, this way!Man, I miss my Chinese uncle.Whenever you're overseas and thensomebody walking past andthey're like, "Something.. YA LAH."Where are you?You know when I went overseas and it wassuch a nice experience to be in Europe,but I miss Singapore.There you go.Because for mepersonally, it was the transport.This is a bit of a tangent, but like,wow, our transport system.It is very good.It's great.Like, you're in Japan and like, "Huh? Howto understand what's going on?"Yeah, I was in Amsterdam and I was tryingto buy a ticket for the tram.The ticket machine was broken.When I got onto the tram, there wasnobody in the ticket, like the counter.Then I was trying to push past.I was trying to get past this British manand his wife and I was like, "Oh, sorry."And he was like, "Well, wehaven't got any room, have I?"I was like, "What the heck, man?"Woah dude, chill out.I really miss Singapore.And like, imagine bringing those thingsthat we miss about Singapore into thesoundtrack or into the song.I think that's kind of sick.Yeah, it'd be cool to like, make somebodywho's overseas like, cry.No, no, no, yeah.That sounded mildly sadistic but okay.That is the essence of it.Because you want them to feel.I feel like people don'treally feel nowadays, you know?Or they like shy away from all theseemotions, but it's whatmakes you human, right?You know, when you shower, the waterpurifies your body from the outside.But tears are the only thing that canpurify you from the inside.So it's so important to cry, I think.Take that.Damn!Oh my God.I'll never look at crying the same way.So yeah, I agree with what you say.If someone can makesomeone cry, that's something.If an artist can make someonecry, that's really something.Imagine making somebody cry with thesound of the "UwU" bird.Uwu!Like you're like, "Oh myGod, I miss Singapore."That's quite funny.You're looking out the window,"What are you listening to?"UWU!When I was there, I was cursing andswearing, but now I'm crying.I miss this bird.What I would give to hear you again.What I would give, yeah, yeah, yeah.Oh my gosh.So thank you very much,Jean and shazza, for joining me.Thank you for having us.Yeah, I really had a very insightfulconversation and I eventook away some ideas on how todo it if we want to dosomething like the Singapore sound.And it's also interesting to know thatyour generation isinterested in something likethat.Because when I spoke to the both of you,the impression that Igot from the more seniorgeneration is that I don't thinkyoungsters would be interested insomething like that.Because even my gen, we're not reallythinking about that much, you see.Right.But I can see that you guys are reallypassionate about it.And you're like, you've thought about itsubconsciously or consciously.But I think it's somethingwhich we cannot part with.This place that we are born and we'reraised here, it's embedded in us.And I think it's all about thinkingwhether do we want tobe aware of it or not.True.We're doing it subconsciously, I guess.But I think when we bring more awarenessto it, maybe there couldbe different possibilitiesopening up.And there could be more us exploringourselves, our identity.And at the same time, also it could leadway to more cross-pollination.And I think that's what Itook away from this conversation.And I really hope that it also doesn'tneed us to dosomething, but at least ponder over it.Yeah.Meditate.It has to happen organically.There you go.Yeah.So we just startconversations, just bring awareness.That's where it starts, yes.But when it happens, it happens.I'm excited for it to happen.Yeah.Sweet.Thank you very much for joining us.Thank you so much for having me.Thank you.

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Shabir Sulthan

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